Breaking the Boundaries between Dance and Religion —An Interview with Boris Charmazt on 'Liberté Cathédrale'
Boris Charmatz
舞蹈
At 7:30 PM Taiwan time on February 10, 2025—12:30 PM in Germany—Boris Charmatz appeared on screen in sportswear, as if ready for a morning run. Even through the screen, I could sense the chill around him, yet he still wore a smile.
“Hello! Can you hear me?”
“Yes. To keep a good connection, I’m standing outside. Can you hear me clearly on your end?”
“Yes! It’s a pleasure to speak with you.”
This was an interview across time zones. Through the screen, we could somewhat feel the distance between us. Despite a slight network delay, our cordial conversation dove straight to the heart of the discussion.
Q: Liberté Cathédrale is your first project since being the artistic director of Wuppertal Dance Theater in 2022. What is the creative concept behind it? Why did you choose this title?
A: When I became the artistic director at Wuppertal Dance Theater, Pina Bausch had already been gone for 15 to 16 years, and everyone was still mourning her. While I wanted to create something different, I also wanted to honor her legacy. That’s why I chose to premiere the piece in a cathedral—so that the performance would not only be a show but also carry a sense of ritual.
As for the title, Liberté Cathédrale symbolizes the tension between liberty and religion. Especially in today’s world, where freedom is increasingly under threat in many places and religious and ideological conflicts are on the rise, this title has become even more meaningful.
Q: Why did you choose a cathedral? What impact did this space have on the creation of this project?
A: A cathedral is a place rich in history and symbolism. Historically, dance was once considered taboo in such spaces, so bringing dance into a cathedral is, in itself, an act of challenge and dialogue. During the creation of this piece, we even stayed in the cathedral for a time to fully immerse ourselves in the space.
Additionally, the cathedral’s architecture and acoustics make it a uniquely suitable venue for performance. Beyond that, its associations with religion and power strongly correspond to the core themes of this project.
Q: This piece has been performed in diverse venues, including a church, a theater, and a football stadium. How do these different settings influence the performance?
A: We don’t deliberately change the choreography. We let the piece adapt to each venue instead. In a church, the hard concrete floor affects the dancers’ movements. In a theater, the professional stage and lighting allow for a more precise presentation. Outdoors, such as in a football stadium, the audience’s sense of distance and perspective is completely different, and the entire atmosphere would become very special and unique.
Q: A large variety of bells are used in this piece. Do they hold any special significance?
A: Since childhood, I’ve dreamed of choreographing with cathedral bells. To me, bells are not just sounds but a form of music. They symbolize time, rituals, and even serve as a means of communication—sometimes carrying political messages. When the Iraq War broke out in 2003, I was in Lyon. The church bells across the city rang in unison, marking the start of the war and foreshadowing the many lives that would be lost. It was a time of deep sorrow.
For Liberté Cathédrale, we incorporated bells from 33 different cities, including Marseille, Lisbon, Graz, and even the bells of Notre-Dame in Paris. We created an echoing effect reminiscent of an electronic music party, allowing the bells to convey a multitude of different messages.
Q: How much liberty do dancers have in this piece? How much of it is improvised?
A: During rehearsals, we gave the dancers a great deal of freedom to explore their own interpretations. However, for the actual performance, there is still a fundamental structure, though we don’t require them to execute every movement identically. This piece emphasizes interactions—both between the dancers and with the audience.
We hope the audience can step into the performance space and become part of the experience. But this also depends on their willingness—some people may not feel comfortable being invited into a performance. For example, when a dancer makes eye contact with an audience member, their reaction may influence how the dancer moves. During our European tour, we encountered some audiences who weren’t keen on close interaction with the performers. However, usually, these interactions only make the whole performance more interesting, making each show a unique experience.
Q: The team is made up of dancers from various backgrounds. What challenges did you encounter when working with them?
A: This piece is actually a cross-team collaboration, bringing together Wuppertal Dance Theater from Germany and Terrain from France. It’s a rare and meaningful cross-cultural partnership.
The biggest challenge was the difference in training methods. Wuppertal dancers are accustomed to daily ballet training, while Terrain dancers are more comfortable with improvisation and physical contact. At first, these two approaches needed time to adapt to each other. However, over time, everyone began to adjust, and they even developed new performance techniques. I believe this cross-cultural collaboration added depth to the piece, allowing the dancers to step out of their comfort zones and discover new possibilities.
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